Bug 1124789

Summary: System roles need improvement
Product: [openSUSE] openSUSE Tumbleweed Reporter: Axel Braun <axel.braun>
Component: PatternsAssignee: Dominique Leuenberger <dimstar>
Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX QA Contact: E-mail List <qa-bugs>
Severity: Normal    
Priority: P5 - None CC: axel.braun, dgonzalez, lnussel, mrmazda
Version: Current   
Target Milestone: ---   
Hardware: Other   
OS: Other   
Whiteboard:
Found By: --- Services Priority:
Business Priority: Blocker: ---
Marketing QA Status: --- IT Deployment: ---

Description Axel Braun 2019-02-08 11:26:57 UTC
During installation YaST2 offer some predefined system roles:
Desktop with KDE/Plasma
Desktop with Gnome
Generic Desktop 
Server
Transactional Server.
So far so good.
But its not obvious where the other desktops, like LXQT, XFCE etc are.
Proposal: Add a sentence for clarification to 'Generic Desktop', e.g. 
Use this and select your desired desktop later in 'Installation overview' -> 'Software Selection'
Comment 1 Felix Miata 2019-02-09 08:59:42 UTC
How old is your TW download? Generic Desktop already has: "Intended as a base for customized software selection."
Comment 2 Axel Braun 2019-02-09 09:03:59 UTC
(In reply to Felix Miata from comment #1)
> How old is your TW download? Generic Desktop already has: "Intended as a
> base for customized software selection."

Latest available TW. 'Customized software selection' can mean everything, so clarification makes things easier, esp. for less experienced users
Comment 3 Jiri Srain 2019-02-13 09:09:25 UTC
In GH, it says:

<label>Graphical system with reduced package set. Intended as base for a customized software selection.</label>

Axel, can you suggest a different wording - but keep the length similar to the existing one, please.
Comment 4 Axel Braun 2019-02-13 12:40:16 UTC
(In reply to Jiri Srain from comment #3)
> In GH, it says:
> 
> <label>Graphical system with reduced package set. Intended as base for a
> customized software selection.</label>
> 
> Axel, can you suggest a different wording - but keep the length similar to
> the existing one, please.

For example:
Minimal graphical system. Add Desktop (XFCE, LXQT,...) under 'Software' on the Installation Overview

Graphical system with reduced package set. Add Desktop (XFCE, LXQT,...) under 'Software' on the Installation Overview

Graphical system with reduced package set. Intended as base for a customized software selection (XFCE, LXQT, LXDE, MATE, Enlightenment and other)

(In the last case the question remains, 'where' to chose this. We as experienced uses know, noobs probably dont and get scared
Comment 5 David Diaz 2019-02-13 16:21:57 UTC
Thanks Axel.

Ludwig, could you please take a look? Thanks.
Comment 6 Dominique Leuenberger 2019-02-13 16:29:56 UTC
out of those, I like 


Graphical system with reduced package set. Add Desktop (XFCE, LXQT,...) under 'Software' on the Installation Overview

the most

@lnussel: also happy with it? Then I'll propose the change in github
Comment 7 Felix Miata 2019-02-13 18:47:27 UTC
(In reply to Dominique Leuenberger from comment #6)
> Graphical system with reduced package set. Add Desktop (XFCE, LXQT,...)
> under 'Software' on the Installation Overview

With this change and no others, no explicit mention of enabling customization would remain on the role screen.
Comment 8 Dominique Leuenberger 2019-02-14 07:55:37 UTC
New try:

Graphical system with reduced package set. Customize software selection under 'Software' on the Installation Overview (e.g. add your desktop environment)
Comment 9 Axel Braun 2019-02-14 08:33:53 UTC
(In reply to Dominique Leuenberger from comment #8)
> New try:
> 
> Graphical system with reduced package set. Customize software selection
> under 'Software' on the Installation Overview (e.g. add your desktop
> environment)

Sounds good
Comment 10 Dominique Leuenberger 2019-02-14 08:40:56 UTC
https://github.com/yast/skelcd-control-openSUSE/pull/168
Comment 11 Felix Miata 2019-02-14 08:50:39 UTC
Longest existing:
Like the Server role but uses a read-only root filesystem to provide atomic, automatic updates of a system without interfering with the running system.

Comment 8:
Graphical system with reduced package set. Customize software selection under 'Software' on the Installation Overview (e.g. add your desktop environment)

Save just a few more characters:
Graphical system with reduced package set. Customize software selection under 'Software' at Installation Overview (e.g. add a desktop environment)

(/me Wonders if first-timers know that XFCE, Cinnamon, Mate, et al are desktop environments)
Comment 12 Ludwig Nussel 2019-02-14 09:08:03 UTC
neither TW nor Leap target the clueless so I don't see a need to change the text there. More explanations could be given in the help screen instead. The method to customize the software selection is the same for all options so adding such statements is just superfluous IMO.
Comment 13 Ladislav Slezák 2019-02-19 20:24:26 UTC
I agree with Ludwig, customizing the SW selection applies to any desktop/role selected. The "Generic Desktop" role is not special in any way. The "Customize software selection under 'Software' on the Installation Overview" description might be misleading, it sounds as if the other desktops cannot be customized.

I think the current "Intended as base for a customized software selection" wording is good enough, it clearly tells that it's supposed to be customized by user.
Comment 14 Felix Miata 2019-02-20 07:53:19 UTC
(In reply to Ladislav Slezák from comment #13)
> I think the current "Intended as base for a customized software selection"
> wording is good enough, it clearly tells that it's supposed to be customized
> by user.

IMO, customizability offered by openSUSE at installation time is one of its important features, but one that is underadvertised, and somewhat disguised by the subtlety of its placement in this single description on a role screen that has "Online Repositorie" [sic] highlighted in its sidebar, followed by the down low and to the left "details" button on the next screen. Maybe this is all intended, maybe it's best, but if not...??? Based on its summary this bug about the whole role screen, not just its middle selection.
Comment 15 Dominique Leuenberger 2019-06-25 14:18:30 UTC
(In reply to Ludwig Nussel from comment #12)
> neither TW nor Leap target the clueless so I don't see a need to change the
> text there. More explanations could be given in the help screen instead. The
> method to customize the software selection is the same for all options so
> adding such statements is just superfluous IMO.

This results in a WONTFIX