Bug 398724

Please read the documentation to see what that is all about.

I rephrase:

a) update and update uncod. perform two _different_ actions, yet, they share the same icon, so user cannot tell at all what will happen -- serious UI flaw 

b) update uncond. is missing from single actions, you can apply this only to the list: so please make it available also to single item

Comment:
1) update action is redundant and serves absolutely no purpose, if you see at least one -- name it, I will be glad to hear about it

2) to force yast to reinstall package to specific version is a struggle (currently), it would be much easier without update/update-uncond. division

3) Stefan, we meet and meet at bugzilla constantly, it would be great to set the common ground, my aim is to point out all the problems with yast, to make it superior tool, what is your aim? By pretending there are no problems, you won't solve them.

Status:
I) since there is no point is reopening twin report of this, I am reopening this one with changed summary, but anyway, dropping update would be a real solution

NEVER EVER again reopen a bug the maintainer of charge of that subsystem resolved just because you want to keep discussing.

For discussions, please use one of the mailing lists or forums. Bugzilla is NOT a discussion forum; it is a working tool for the people working on the distribution.

(In reply to comment #2 from Maciej Pilichowski)
> I rephrase:

I rephrase: Read the documentation. It is all explained there in great detail.


> a) update and update uncod. perform two _different_ actions, yet, they share
> the same icon, 

They use the same icon because that status is what the affected packages will end up with. Is that so difficult to understand?


> so user cannot tell at all what will happen 

Huh? So you only look at icons and don't read the text beside that icon?

> -- serious UI flaw 

Nonsense.


> b) update uncond. is missing from single actions, you can apply this only to
> the list: so please make it available also to single item

This is NOT a separate action. Why would it be?

Do you really fail to see the difference between "All in this list -> update if newer version available" and "All in this list -> update unconditionally"? How much more verbose can a menu action become?


> Comment:
> 1) update action is redundant and serves absolutely no purpose

Huh? That does not make any sense whatsoever to me. So you don't want to be able to update packages? You will find yourself very alone with that opinion.


> , if you see at least one -- name it, I will be glad to hear about it

If you really need that explained, please ask on one of the mailing lists. I bet you will get several dozen answers in no time at all.


> 2) to force yast to reinstall package to specific version is a struggle
> (currently)

All it takes is one single mouse click. Please explain how this is a struggle.
You just need to click on the version you want in the "Versions" tab. That click will even set the status of the package to "update" automatically.


> it would be much easier without update/update-uncond. division

I repeat: Please read the documentation. Or please at least try both options to figure out what each one is.

 
> 3) Stefan, we meet and meet at bugzilla constantly

Right. There are very few users who seem to have so many problems with package management.


> it would be great to set the common ground, my aim is to point out all the 
> problems with yast

The problems YOU see. But you are not the only user. There are hundreds of thousands others (this is not exaggerating - just look at the sheer numbers of openSUSE users). You will have to face the fact that this tool is not cutom-made for you alone.


>  to make it superior tool, what is your aim? 

My goal is to prevent insane changes caused by people who have a strange understanding of how things work, and how they should work according to their strange view of the world.

Do you really think everybody else is just stupid, in particular the people who designed, implemented and keep maintaining this software?

Don't you think in years upon years communicating with many, many users (and of course using the software ourselves all the time, too) we might have gathered quite some experience what works and what does not? What people can understand and what not? What kind of change makes sense and what kind does not?


> By pretending there are no problems, you won't solve them.

Really, you should try to read the documentation before you post strange bug reports.
 

> I) since there is no point is reopening twin report of this, I am reopening
> this one with changed summary, but anyway, dropping update would be a real
> solution

Dropping update? Do you have any idea what it is you are demanding here?

> > so user cannot tell at all what will happen 
> Huh? So you only look at icons and don't read the text beside that icon?

Icon should be not used as dead-decoration. Icon should bring information, if it is only eye candy then it could be dropped.


> > a) update and update uncod. perform two _different_ actions, yet, they
> > share the same icon, 
> They use the same icon because that status is what the affected packages will
> end up with. Is that so difficult to understand?

ONE ICON = ONE MEANING! No matter if it is yast, openoffice, or Quake. Go read some UI books if you can't understand that simple principle. DO NOT REUSE SYMBOLS!


> > 2) to force yast to reinstall package to specific version is a struggle
> > (currently)

> All it takes is one single mouse click. Please explain how this is a
> struggle.


No, it does not take one click -- I already tested it. When you want to downgrade, the status of the icon is changed to update. But all it will do is "refresh".

Example:
Package A. Version 10.0. Installed.

I click on version 9.0. Status -> update. So I confirm. Yast downloads package, updates it. I check the version 10.0.

You have to update uncond. if you want to downgrade and this is a flaw, because if I update some packages, and update uncod. some others, soon enough I will not know what I am doing because I am flood with the _same_ icons.

And check the yast -- there are no tooltips (report closed), user can only rely on status. And status is exactly the same.

This is what you call user-friendly UI? Because for me it is a struggle.


Oh, and one minor thing:
> I repeat: Please read the documentation.

There is none. Check it for yourself.


========================================================================

UI FLAWS:
* icon is reused
* user set an action, yast resets it to another action
* user apply an action, other action is performed
* some items are available for single packages, some only for list of packages -- now user has to find out how to filter out interesting packages to apply list-only actions

(In reply to comment #5 from Maciej Pilichowski)
> > > so user cannot tell at all what will happen 
> > Huh? So you only look at icons and don't read the text beside that icon?
> 
> Icon should be not used as dead-decoration. Icon should bring information, if
> it is only eye candy then it could be dropped.

It does. You just don't seem to realize that.


[snip - you don't really want to read the reply I have in mind to that next section]




> Oh, and one minor thing:
> > I repeat: Please read the documentation.
> 
> There is none. Check it for yourself.

There is none? Are you kidding? Hint: Google is your friend.

> It does. You just don't seem to realize that.

o -- this is an update symbol
o -- this is an update uncond. symbol

o 
what symbol is this?

> > There is none. Check it for yourself.
> There is none? Are you kidding? Hint: Google is your friend.

Amazing. The network is dead, yet the best way is to use google. Oh, because Stefan didn't hear about help and F1 key, and didn't notice the help is not very helpful.
But who would care, right?

Keep sabotaging Yast, good work Stefan!

Ah, so you think we copy the whole PDF manual to the inst-sys just for users who flatly refuse to read any documentation? Interesting approach. Would you also be prepared for that additional half Gigabyte of RAM that would require?

But sure, we are all just stupid. We are doing that just out of sheer spite.

Wake up. Check the reality around you.