Bug 421805

The howto (http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs/YaST) is probably too long to fit in the popup window. Displaying the link should be sufficient.

I have no idea which dialog did you see. Please, attach yast logs so I can locate the problem.

(In reply to comment #0 from a b)
> when yast fails the logs are hardly accessable for most people. 
> When i run into a problem i was informed that the logs are in
> /var/log/Yast/y2log.
> This is true but how many people know that you have to press <ctrl><alt><f2> 
> to get a usable console ?

Those who read the Bug Reporting FAQ where all this is explained in great detail?

If we ask users who report bugs to attach y2logs, we usually add a link to the Bug Reporting FAQ where all this is explained.

http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs/YaST#I_reported_a_YaST2_bug.2C_and_now_I_am_asked_to_.22attach_y2logs.22._What_does_that_mean.2C_and_how_do_I_do_that.3F
http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs/YaST#I_get_a_red_text_pop-up_telling_me_.22An_error_occurred_during_installation.22._Is_there_still_any_way_to_salvage_log_files.3F

I wouldn't know any other use for the y2logs for a normal user, in particular one who doesn't know how to switch consoles and how to invoke simple commands. Users who report YaST bugs are pointed to that FAQ.

i get the feeling that we are talking about different things.
Just to make sure:
*yast in text mode
 -i do NOT mean the yast with ncurses interface you see when you have a running   system. I mean when yast fails while installation and it switches to old yast1 layout.

That means you are in deep trouble if this yast fails and says "please read the y2log". 

* IMHO it would be nice to have a text requester that simply shows the log (this is done in other requester with <details>) and 
* adding an option to save the log would be interessting to anyone who trys to fix what went wrong.
 

i get the feeling that we are talking about different things.
Just to make sure:
*yast in text mode
 -i do NOT mean the yast with ncurses interface you see when you have a running   system. I mean when yast fails while installation and it switches to old yast1 layout.

That means you are in deep trouble if this yast fails and says "please read the y2log". 

* IMHO it would be nice to have a text requester that simply shows the log (this is done in other requester with <details>) and 
* adding an option to save the log would be interessting to anyone who trys to fix what went wrong.
 

There is no more YaST1 layout. There is the YaST2 NCurses / text mode, and there is linuxrc, the (also text-based) program that initializes the installation.

What would a non-YaST2-developer user do with that log? Look in those logs and judge if you can make sense of it. I doubt. Do you think people would edit and fix YCP or C++ code? 

If normal users see that kind of error, there is typically nothing they can do about it. They only get to see that if there are programming errors. Other situations where there is a reasonable workaround (like e.g. shutting down another instance of the YaST software module to unlock a locked ZYPP database) should give the user a reasonable error message that tells him what he can do.


My assessment of this: Not useful or desirable. INVALID.

last crashes i had lead to problems very deep in yast2.
The logs contain not only information about started yast modules but also error messages e.g. from mount and others. Something even an non-yast-developer can read.

more over: the seldom used error path may contain hidden bugs that are interessting for yast2 developers. So, in extreme case where the log may only exists in ram, an option to save is vital. the developer can learn about  condition that are extremly hard to produce at will. Users will prefer an full new installation that will destroy any trace of the first failed installation.

The problem in your particular scenario seems to have been that error return values (mount etc.) were insufficiently checked and/or reported. This is a real bug, and this should clearly be fixed. Is there a separate bug report for this?

But this is independent of any "save logs" facility. And it doesn't make the y2logs any more useful for the great majority of users. The y2logs are for the debugging by the YaST developers. They are not meant for the end user; otherwise we'd have to do that logging radically differently.

(In reply to comment #6 from a b)
> more over: the seldom used error path may contain hidden bugs that are
> interessting for yast2 developers. So, in extreme case where the log may only
> exists in ram, an option to save is vital. 

If you mean copying the logs from the RAM disk that is used during installation to a more permanent location: This is what the save_y2logs script (explained in the Bug Reporting FAQ) does. Finding such a permanent place (USB stick etc.) is the user's responsibility.

I'll add a link to http://en.opensuse.org/Bugs/YaST page in that dialog, all what you need is described there.

Fixed in yast2-2.17.26.

please be more verbose people may feel offended when yast crashes and you have no internet because the update/install is incomplete. The last thing you would like to see is an error message containig a link.
Write something about save_y2logs and a console using <f2> AND a link.

belive me, it happend to me.

Will this insanity ever end?
We cannot and will not provide a beginner's Linux tutorial in that pop-up. If people are not willing to read the documentation, that's fine by me, but this cannot mean that we force-feed it on them in an error message.

I agree with Stefan, we cannot display a howto documentation in an error popup.
Error popups should display just the message, not a documentation what to do, what does it mean, possible solutions, etc...

You need some Linux knowledge to use the logs anyway, and attaching them to bugzilla needs internet access too.

no need to be rude.
i gave *my opinion*. if somebody like to follow, it is ok if not also.

if you want the logs make it so easy as possible, if not why an error message at all ?
The discussion start with the question: "is it possible to add a save button to save logs ?". Answer: "not that easy"

discussion closed