Well, I can add a remark for a future: (openSUSE 10.3)
-If this Novell Client is OSS, than it must be part of the main repository (not necessarily on DVD, but on FTP)
-If it's not, then I think it should go into the non-OSS CD

just my 2 cents :)

-Alexey "Technologov"

(In reply to comment #1)
> Well, I can add a remark for a future: (openSUSE 10.3)
> -If this Novell Client is OSS, than it must be part of the main repository (not
> necessarily on DVD, but on FTP)

yes, I think **any** novell product with licenses compatible with opensuse should be available at least in the network installation sources.

not having proper builds for Novell's own opensource or distributable products is just very embarrasing and does not make any sense.

 

I see this RPM

nici-2.6.8-0.02.i386.rpm
novell-nmasclient-3.2.0-9.i386.rpm
novell-client-1.1.0-4.i586.rpm
novell-client-script-1.1.0-12.i586.rpm
novell-konqueror-plugin-1.1.0-222.suse10.i586.rpm (derived work of Konqueror ??) 
novell-nautilus-plugin-1.1.0-222.suse10.i586.rpm
novell-novfs-1.1.0-7.i586.rpm (already included, last time I saw it, it raised and amusing kernel warning saying that "was not supported by novell" (if not supported by novell then I wonder ...supported by whom ? ;-P)
novell-novfsd-1.2.0-2.i586.rpm
novell-qtgui-1.1.0-222.suse10.i586.rpm (gpl unless novell has QT commercial license ??) 
novell-ui-base-1.1.0-222.suse10.i586.rpm
novell-xplatlib-1.0.2-1.i586.rpm
ovell-xtier-base-3.1.3-12.suse10.i586.rpm
novell-xtier-core-3.1.3-12.suse10.i586.rpm
yast2-novell-client-1.1.0-8.i586.rpm (derived work of yast(???) ..where is the source ? ;-) )


just for the sake of completeness, "properly built" of course, means built against distribution own libraries and policies. also source code RPMs available where applicable right.

(In reply to comment #4)
> I see this RPM
...
> yast2-novell-client-1.1.0-8.i586.rpm (derived work of yast(???) ..where is the
> source ? ;-) )

Indeed ;)
The Novell Client is proprietary though, not released under an open source license (for whatever reason, possibly historical).

> just for the sake of completeness, "properly built" of course, means built
> against distribution own libraries and policies. also source code RPMs
> available where applicable right.

Those RPMs are for SLED, not for openSUSE.
One has to jump through a few hoops to have it running properly on openSUSE 10.2.

That's what I meant with "properly built": build the Novell Client against 10.2
And, of course, provide an online repository where it can be installed from (accepting licenses and such can be provided in yast2 repositories too so that's hardly a hurdle), not just a tarball with rpm files.

Andriy, please work to get a build working for the Linux Client on OpenSUSE 10.2

When can I expect this?  I need it ASAP.  I've been trying to make do with the novell clients that are available, but I'm not having any luck.

  1) It looks like the database for novell-xregd isn't being created
  2) Any operation (e.g. clicking on the tray icon or trying to log in) gives an error from the cross-platform libs (don't have the specific error with me; is in NWCCScanConnRefs).

Anyhow, the sooner this gets fixed, the better.  I'm having trouble without it.  :(

Any update and/or timeframe on this ?

We are having some problems with building the novfs against kernel-um syms. Is there any external kernel module that compiles against it successfully? Or where can we find some information about it?

Bueller?

Stumbled across http://www.sharms.org/blog/?p=115 which also expresses these concerns

I believe we will have a build for openSuse 10.2 soon.

Thanks Dima. Please keep us updated here about your progress so we can at least see it's being worked on and nearing finalization ;) (having it look like total inertia is not shedding a good light)

Somewhere in June comments were posted containing URL to the 2007614 build of the client, build for openSUSE 10.2 (http://farek.provo.novell.com/install/ncl/2007614). 
Please, can be explained why these are removed?

Rgrds, Martijn

We put the Linux Client download on the Novell on the ftp server. ftp.novell.com/outgoing

We are also working to get this posted with other opensuse downloads.

files in ftp.novell.com/outgoing are apparently not accessible by anonymous.

rgrds, martijn

The 2.0 version of the Open SUSE 10.2 version of the Linux Client is available from: http://www.novell.com/beta/auth/beta.jsp?id=2208&type=1

(In reply to comment #20 from Suzan Jensen)
> The 2.0 version of the Open SUSE 10.2 version of the Linux Client is available
> from: http://www.novell.com/beta/auth/beta.jsp?id=2208&type=1
> 

Good that 's a progress.. however an ISO image is not quite suitable for the userbase :( , what really is really useful is having it available as a regular repository (either via the non-oss or OSS whatever applies) if that is not possible, whatever kind of online, properly packaged online repo helps. 

might I add that its not only openSUSE that suffers, but the client doesn't even work properly in SLED 10 SP1!!

IE: if users login and use the client, the system will hang on shutdown. The newest novfs kernel update still does this. It segfaults when trying to unmount.

Also, single signon.. the client will prompt a 'user logged in, login again' warning when using pam_script, which in itself is a hack because ncl_autologin should be working fine.

I decided to use novell and suse because I *thought* we'd have some type of simple signon system. Guess I was wrong. The lack of updates to the client is very frustrating, and makes it harder for me to make a business case to use Novell.

(In reply to comment #24 from Jakob Perry)
> might I add that its not only openSUSE that suffers, but the client doesn't
> even work properly in SLED 10 SP1!!

Please opne a separate report, what you are experiencing looks like a different problem,

Sorry, let me clarify and perhaps these comments do belong in another bug track. However, I wanted to point out that the 'Sorry state of novell client on openSuse' is more than just getting it on the system. Once installed, the client is very picky and in my opinion, not suitable for production use, be that openSuSE (10.3 is what I'm using) or SLED 10. The examples I gave above happen on both. 

I'd like to see whats being done on the development side. The last minor release was late September for the novfs part of NCL.

Is there anything happening? It would be nice if we could bring RPMs in the current Factory tree to have a wider test. This would allow you to get much better tested base for the next upcoming SLE 11.

We're at alpha stage for openSUSE 11.0 now... 

assigning to Lonnie Iverson for investigation/evaluation

Just a short update on this bug as people in the last openSUSE project meeting complained about the slow progress here. 
I'm now in contact with the right people for the Novell client for openSUSE and we're working on a solution. 

I don't know if you've seen this Michael, but bug 340510 is one of the big thorns in the sorry state of the Novell Client on OpenSUSE:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=340510

I'm marking this a URGENT bug.. after a year of neglect, this shouldn't be a hard bug to fix. Until this bug is repaired, OpenSUSE 10.3 is not usable in a Novell network.

OpenSUSE 10 SP1 is not usable for the majority of my team, but they need the client, and more importantly novfs working. Please see what can be done to help hurry this bug along.

I'm assuming this is also true for OpenSUSE 11

(In reply to comment #29 from Michael Loeffler)
> Just a short update on this bug as people in the last openSUSE project meeting
> complained about the slow progress here. 
> I'm now in contact with the right people for the Novell client for openSUSE and
> we're working on a solution. 
> 

if there is any help needed on packaging the components where source code **is available**(yes, it is a conditional) let me to know.

*** Bug 382517 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Any news on this? Is is still feasible for Opensuse 11 ?

Joe, 
please provide us with a status update. Will you and your team be able to offer the Novell Client again for openSUSE 11.0 at launch date June 19th?

I'm currently in testing with the novell client for OpenSuSE 11. For the most part it is working properly, except for the intermittent appearance of ncl_tray showing up in its own window in the upper left of the screen.

There also needs to be a refresh of using pam_script and autologin for the novell client. novfs is working better now with beta 2 (After the drive space bug was fixed), however its showing incorrect free space for drive pools. (IE: you have three NSS volumes within one pool that is 600GB, novfs will show 1800GB as total storage)

Also, the rpms are built upon an old version of libbfd, which requires manual symbolic links to allow ncl to work. This should be updated for 11 as well.

Jakob,
Thanks for the information.
Something has changed somewhere which causes ncl_tray to not dock in the tray. See Bug#377575.

wrt. Comment #36: It's good to know that 'most parts' are working but it should be better. We can also get it to work on 10.2 and 10.3 (with some issues). This is also the intention of this bug.
Otherwise we end up with another 'Sorry state of Novell Client' on another version of OpenSUSE (11).

We should be able to install this stuff without any hacks like symlinking libs, novfsd not segfaulting when shutting down, etc...

Bumping up the openSUSE version.

++ for ship_stopper. It'd be good if Novell's sponsored OS works with their own software ++

After doing extensive testing for the last few days, I've concluded the following problems exist still with the client in OpenSuSE

Comment #37 - Tray doesn't load correctly
Comment #36 - libbfd requires manual linking, requires rebuilding/testing rpm?
Comment #30 - As far as Novell Client is concerned, its pretty much fixed, although we have a new issue where drive space being reported is not what it actually is. (its much higher.. appears to be a bug in NSS, so not really related to this bug.
Comment #24 - Single signin still doesn't work properly. The better alternative I suggest is using pam_script to mount connections. This is still a hack, we should be using the pam_ncl_autologin.so pam module for autologin. However, when this module is used exclusively, you get a 'you're already logged in, do you wish to login again? with the ncl_tray gui'
Comment #38 - Not shutting down (segfault) - Just tested this, and can verify in OpenSuSE beta3 that it does not segfault anymore. So this is fixed.
Comment #7 - NWCCScanConnRefs will popup in 11 if you install the client without restarting the system. After a restart, this error appears to go away.

Additionally: we periodically get a novfs error where the folder containing the users shares in /var/opt/novell/nclmnt/(USERNAME) is owned by root or nobody, which causes the user to not be able to access shares. You'll get an errer 8824 SetDriveBase error. The work around is by manually symlinking /var/opt/novell/nclmnt/.Servers/(SERVERNAME)/(SHARENAME) to the users home directory. this is probably the most annoying novell bug at the moment, due to its randomness. We haven't been able to establish a pattern of why some users will get their ownership changed, while others won't. The only way to fix this issue is by restarting the machine. (which isn't an option when 25 users are sharing it)

Besides the above bug, things are progressing quite nicely. I'm blogging our testing on OpenSuSE 11 here: http://www.fcdnet.org/japerry/2008/05/ltsp-kiwi-opensuse-11-novell-edirectory.html

Found yet another bug in Novell LUM, which has been verified before and should be tested by users here.

If you installed the most recent version of novell-lum-2.2.0.14-3.7 -- passwords are being incorrectly accepted that get typed case-insensitive. 

There was talk of this bug in the novell support thread:
http://forums.novell.com/novell-product-support-forums/suse-linux-enterprise-desktop-sled/sled-networking/167439-lum-case-sensitive.html

However, it doesn't look like a good resolution was found.. they decided to downgrade lum. Specifically for me, it throws no errors, as if the password was correct. Verified its pam_nam.so -- which causes LDM, GDM, SSH, Gnome-screensaver, anything that uses pam_nam to do authentication, to accept bad passwords.

Since some novell client folks are following this bug, hopefully one of them will see this and can advise whats been going on with pam_nam.so and get an updated version for OpenSuSE 11.

PS. This error shows up on SLED 10 as well. Its using the same version of novell-lum.

Ping? The release is getting very close now...

(In reply to comment #42 from Leo Eraly)
> Ping? The release is getting very close now...

We understand your needs and we are doing what we can. Just know that we are not ignoring you.

Release is out for a few days already now and we start to see people 'complaining' about being unable to find a working Novell Client.

any chance to get it working anywhen soon? If any help with testing is needed, don't by shy to ask the communiy: we have some great people ;)

(In reply to comment #43 from Joe Harmon)
> (In reply to comment #42 from Leo Eraly)
> > Ping? The release is getting very close now...
> 
> We understand your needs and we are doing what we can. Just know that we are
> not ignoring you.
> 

I think when you see that this bug has existed for well over a year now, and the Novell client is even less operable in 11 then 10.3, its very reasonable to believe that the Novell developers are ignoring us.

Joe, is there a reason why the Novell client shouldn't be open source? When the novfs bug tracker is closed to the public, and we can't see any snapshots of the Novell client, I think that leads us to believe we're being ignored. If the fixes were done quickly, perhaps this wouldn't be a problem--but obviously there is something wrong with the client and your team isn't able to fix it quick enough.

As a paying Novell user, its hard to justify to my CIO that Novell is worth it when even their own client doesn't work right in linux.

Created attachment 224905 [details]
boot.log when trying to 'rebuild' novfs on latest opensuse patched kernel

Comment on attachment 224905 [details]
boot.log when trying to 'rebuild' novfs on latest opensuse patched kernel

why didnt they use ncpfs as a basis instead of loling us like this ? this is getting really frustrating..

here's a dirty way to get the OS10.2 client working on OS11.0
http://www.novell.com/communities/node/5688

Let's hope the native 11.0 client is more tidy that this ... (why require KDE-libs)

"cool" solution ? *cough*

tried this already doesn't seem to work on x86_64 systems.. 
Also their are more lines for the  rebuild options in the novfs script to take out than is proposed.

finally fixed it ..

uninstalled the novell-client.novfs.2.0 module in yast (ignore dependicies here).

uninstalled the (normal) novfs kernel modules in yast

then removed all novfs.ko from:
/lib/modules/$uname/updates
/lib/modules/$uname/kernel/fs/novfs/

took these lines out of novfsd in /etc/init.d

________________________________
#removing because its already built
# # Rebuild the novfs if needed
# cd /opt/novell/ncl/src/novfs
# ./mk_novfs

#Try and start novfs
modprobe novfs

#removing because its already built
# lsmod |grep novfs 2>&1 >/dev/null
# if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
# cd /opt/novell/ncl/src/novfs
# ./mk_novfs force
# depmod
# modprobe novfs
# fi
________________________________


reboot


then in yast chose novfs-kernel-2.6.xxxxxxx let it install reboot,

works except the issue with nautilus is still present because I don't think they have fixed the community novfs for 10.3 repos as stated here:?? only factory ?? 

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=340510

but you can copy from the shell..

and on restart or shutdown it still segfaults as stated here:

http://forums.novell.com/novell-product-support-forums/open-enterprise-server/oes-platform-independent/oes-client-linux/326730-novfs-shutdown-bug-opensuse-10-3-a.html

Maybe we should add rhovsepian@novell.com or jjaffe@novell.com to the CC'list and see if this will speed up things ;-))

This was opened for openSUSE 10.3 so I am changing it back to 10.3. We will have a build available for the public very soon. We are also working on an 11.0 build but will track that separately

The reverting of the version requested and changing of the title shows a lack of respect to the community if you ask me.  Try not to alienate your userbase.  

I disagree. This bug was opened for openSUSE 10.3 and it should continue for openSUSE 10.3. I will open one for openSUSE 11.0 shortly. It is simply to track them separately. 

Here is the new bug which is filed under the Novell Client for Linux section of bugzilla. This means that those outside of Novell will not be able to see it unless they are added to the cc list. I will add everyone that is on this cc list to that bug so that you can see it.
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=405057

If you wish to retain the bug as one for 10.3 and open a new one, that is one thing.  Changing the title, however, really only diminishes the importance given to the issue by community members.  "Sorry state" is a good description of what people found.

(In reply to comment #57 from Daniel Desy)
> If you wish to retain the bug as one for 10.3 and open a new one, that is one
> thing.  Changing the title, however, really only diminishes the importance
> given to the issue by community members.  "Sorry state" is a good description
> of what people found.

The problem is that "sorry state" was to general a term and as you can see from all the comments there were several issues that were being thrown under the same bug.

Quite frankly I dont care what its called as long as it is being addressed and the issue is being worked on (which so it seems). If novell needs any kind of community testing (alpha, beta, whatever) for the fixes please let us know. 

Yes, I think it would be great if you could pound on it as well. It is not released as a public beta. This is the Novell Client for Linux 2.0 SP1

http://www.novell.com/beta/auth/beta.jsp?id=2585&type=1

I meant to say it is "now" released as a public beta not that it is "not" released as a public beta. :)

Created attachment 225194 [details]
ncl update logs

thanks for the infos , I tried a upgrade on my main x86_64 machine and this is what I got. Unfortunately didn't work of the bat.  

I didn't get to play with it much yet (long day) so Ill look more into it tomorrow, also I will try the i386 client tomorrow in a bigger production environment circa 500 clients with around 20 NetWare and SLES Servers total. 

I also will try a clean install (no upgrade).

Hope this helps